Posted Dec 05, 2005 at 12:00AM by Clay C. Listed in: News
Ó

By LOREN STEFFY

Source: Chron.com

Xbox360curves

HOW many of them, I asked, wanted an Xbox 360? Every hand in the room of seventh-graders shot up. Even the teacher's.

Then I asked how many wanted to pay $400 for it. Almost every hand went down.

The game console may be cool, but it's just too expensive, they said. They think the games are overpriced, as well. Microsoft, which makes the Xbox, jacked the average game price by about $10 from the earlier Xbox version.

In a few months, the students at W.I. Stevenson Middle School told me, both the games and the console would cost less, Sony would be coming out with a new Playstation, and the cycle of hype would start all over again.

Gaining insight

Sometimes, Career Day is a two-way street. I went to talk about journalism and wound up gaining market insight into the hottest item in this increasingly lukewarm holiday shopping season.
Granted, my market sampling was small. As seventh-graders, the students are younger than Xbox's target demographic, and their purchases are probably controlled by their parents. But they are the emerging generation of gamers, and their skepticism could spell trouble for an industry whose hopes for profitability hinge on frenetic marketing and the fickle tastes of the young.

Because at $400, Microsoft is losing money on the Xbox.

Sum of its parts

Just before Thanksgiving, iSuppli, a California market researcher, ripped apart the Xbox and analyzed the costs of its components. The guts alone — the processors and memory chips — cost $370. Factor in the controllers, the DVD drive, cables, hard drive and packaging, and the cost zooms to $525, iSuppli found.

Microsoft's entertainment division, which includes the Xbox and other computer games, lost $391 million for the fiscal year ended in July. The previous year, it lost $1.2 billion. When I asked about the loss, I got nonsensical PR drivel from the firm that fields questions about Xbox:

"We'll make Microsoft-scale profits on Xbox 360 over its lifecycle.

"If we reach the share we expect to, we will be profitable. Profitability will be sustained with powerful, continuous innovation."

Elsewhere, Microsoft has said it expects to turn a profit for the division in 2007.

Don't count on it. The company is betting on games to make up for the losses it's taking on consoles. So far the strategy hasn't worked.

Last year's narrower loss for the gaming division largely reflected the release of Halo 2, which added $300 million in sales, Microsoft said. Even the hottest game of the year, though, wasn't enough to offset the division's loss.

Costlier games

Meanwhile, games are getting more expensive to produce as they add sophisticated graphics and intricate story lines.

Higher production costs mean the danger of a flop is more expensive. To lower the risk, the industry is borrowing a page from Hollywood. It's turning to more sequels and rehashes, rather than backing new concepts.

Microsoft's "continuous powerful innovation" is likely to be Halo 3, the newest version of last year's blockbuster, set for release in mid-2006. New titles in the coming months include another Ghost Recon, another Tomb Raider and Dead or Alive 4, which uses characters from Halo.

In such retreads lies the hope for profitability, which is why even the most modest changes are breathlessly hyped as revolutionary.

Gaming magazines rarely pan new titles. The current hot-ticket game, Star Wars Battlefront II — another sequel — has received rave reviews because, unlike its predecessor, players can fight space battles and play as a Jedi.

Now, being a Jedi is pretty cool, but the new game is essentially the same as the old, with a few new characters and backgrounds. It sells for $50. Battlefront I, which is about a year old, sells for about $20.

Is being a Jedi worth an extra $30? Or is it worth waiting a few months to wield a light saber at a 60 percent discount?

Shelf life limited

For now, Xbox's audience lives for the moment, pays a premium and ignores the planned obsolescence of it all. But if Microsoft continues to pass off hype as "powerful innovation," that could change.
At $400, Microsoft is selling an expensive razor at a loss, and hoping to make up the difference with pricey blades.

The new Xbox may have lots of high-dollar components, but its biggest selling point is basically "better graphics," the same plug that's always used to push new consoles. That's not enough "powerful innovation" to justify the price.

Even seventh-graders can see that the Xbox 360, no matter how cool, isn't worth the money. Hands down.


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42 Comments


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   by John (Unregistered) - 1999-11-30

LMAO... so let me get this right - Microsoft is going to fail with the XBOX360 because a class of 7th graders can't afford 400 dollars. This article is good for nothing but a few laughs... Hell a 7th grader can't afford a DVD let alone a console.

There is nothing wrong with the price range of the xbox360.

If microsoft releases a solid machine with good specs then people say "ooh to expensive".

If microsoft barely improved the machine over the last xbox it will be beaten by the competition and everyone will say "screw microsoft! this thing is weak!"

Propaganda.


   by SNES Link (Unregistered) - 1999-11-30

I'm from the UK and when I bought the XBox when that first came out it was £300 for the console, now the 360 costs £280 so for me thats a good thing plus its more powerfull, bugger hard drive, Live ready, wireless and comes with a neat remote! So what the hell are people on about? I bet you my 360 the PS3 will cos a lot more than the PS2 did when that came out.


   by Kajico (Unregistered) - 1999-11-30

Last time I checked, there was such a thing called an X-Box 360 Core System.


   by Jettatore (Unregistered) - 1999-11-30

this is some stupid logic that is all I have to say

and this is why they did the 'Core' system, so if you were a cheap ass you could still get it for 300 bucks


   by Jettatore (Unregistered) - 1999-11-30

It's not the $400 that bugs me, it's the $60 per game. $50 was already steep and adding to it doesnt make it any better. If they expect a return on games, they shouldnt keep pushing them farther and farther out of range.


   by Paul (Unregistered) - 1999-11-30

The 5 first posts, all just as I thought that they would be. Denial.
There's a lot more of the young people than there are of us, mind you. And it's the young people's parents whom decide what they are going to spend on a console. My parents didn't even get me an N64 when it came out, because they claimed that we had too many video game systems already. (NES, SNES, Genesis/Megadrive, Atari 2600, Gameboy, and Game Gear. (Yes I know the last two aren't strictly considered consoles.)) My point is, that no one should have to pay so much for a video game console. I think that Microsoft should be boasting about the revolutionary things that really makes it innovative if hey want to attract other people. I think that the system's Dashboard is a pretty cool. I like that I can access Dashboard at any time, and I like the online capabilities for purchasing arcade games. In fact, the only 2 things that bug me about the system are it's price, and the lack of built in wireless 802.11.


   by Kajico (Unregistered) - 1999-11-30

Yeah, but unlike other consoles of the time, the Xbox and Xbox360's target audience has always been older generation gamers.

You can't say the 360 will fail based on cost, because we see right now just how much people are willing to spend to get their hands on one.

And as said before there is the core which is 299 the same cost as the original Xbox launch price.

When the original launched, there was not as much want for it, until near the christmas holiday and people had already had plenty of time to evaluate it. Then they became scarce and sold out rather quickly.

This here now is the opposite, everybody wants one and they don't care what the cost is.


   by Paul (Unregistered) - 1999-11-30

People seem to forget the PS3 is going to be in the same price range, if not more. Games increase because costs of development and programming increase. Microsoft also only operates at a loss temporarily because of high costs of components, but as time will progress so will technology which means lower costs of components so Microsoft will hopefully eventually break even or turn a profit, like the first xbox did. Also, 7th graders? Oh come on, kids are so dumb these days the only thing they can identify is McDonalds let alone economics of the gaming industry. 400 dollars isn't too bad considering earlier consoles and after adjusting to inflation rates and such.


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   by Medusa.dC* (Unregistered) - 1999-11-30

I think you guys mean the $340 Core system + required memory card.


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

LOL! come on! only a cheap loser could complain about the premium pack being 400$! thats nothing. im from canada, and here, the CORE system is 400 and the premium is 500$ and yet the system cant stay on the shelves. i think people are forgetting that we can afford higher prices becuase more people are making more money. i make 8$ and hour and i can afford the 500$ so i think a parent, who on average in canada makes at least 40grand can afford that to make their kids happy. cry me a river! and 60$ for games? haHA! here they are upwards of 80$ and dont say our money is worth less, because we are about 85cents to your dollar, so the exchange rate is not even a factor. i think for every cheap loser that complains baout the price, there are 5 people that are happy its so cheap! i cant wait to see what jeff chan thinks about the price of ps3, that has been rumored to really put a dent in the consumers pocket!


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

"The new Xbox may have lots of high-dollar components, but its biggest selling point is basically "better graphics," the same plug that's always used to push new consoles. That's not enough "powerful innovation" to justify the price"

what the hell else you want it to do? make toast for you


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

The playstation3 is already stated to be under 500 bucks.

My guess is they will have it for 400 bucks the same as the premium xbox360 console for competition.

No way will microsoft be able to drop the price before the PS3 is out because it wont be cost effective and they will still fail to out-sell the PS3.

Surveys from around the world have already shown that the PS3 is already on top of peoples list and the xbox360 isnt.

Also the article makes a good point about microsoft not choosing to use a next generation optical drive.

I already knew this would be the worst thing to do since space will always be an issue when it comes to high definition content. Sony knew it and they decided to keep the blu-ray drive since it will offer a better means of storage.

If sony can create a console thats not only more powerful then the xbox360 and have a next generation HD drive they will outbeat microsoft. Hell its already stated that the new HD-DVD and Blu-ray top sets will cost nearly 1000 bucks. When people look at the cost, im sure most will opt for a PS3 instead.

Also the core system is a piece of ****. Not even worth buying. You have to have a hard drive to have backwards compatability so anyone buying the core is really getting screwed.

Also with all the articles about increasing developer cost, its an exageration. Alot of xbox360 games are ports. So really the extra cost of porting it to the xbox360 isnt even close to developing from scratch.

COD2 for example is a graphically inferior port of the PC game. The models and textures look like crap compared to the PC game and im running at 1024x768 with 2x AA and it looks much better then the xbox360 thats suppose to run at 720p with full screen AA. It should look just about the same but it doesnt.

And so far people have said that COD2 on the xbox360 is the best looking game on the console so far, if so then i can stick with my PC and wait for a back to back comparison of the xbox360 and the ps3 before i buy.


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

"The new Xbox may have lots of high-dollar components, but its biggest selling point is basically "better graphics," the same plug that's always used to push new consoles. That's not enough "powerful innovation" to justify the price"

what the hell else you want it to do? make toast for you"

I think the problem is this is supposed to be a new generation of gaming which should include something new in the means of gameplay and game experience, not just better graphics. That makes it difficult to justify paying $300 for a new system and $60 for a new game. For a little better graphics. Doesnt change the experience all that much. I admit Im a gaming enthusiast so I already got the 360 and a stack of games, but honestly it doesnt feel fresh at all. Feels just like the Xbox with better graphics, thats it. I guess I was just hoping for a lot more. But they say "What about the new interface?! Play your own music?! Live Arcade?! Gamerscore?!" Well you dont spend too much of your gaming time on the interface. Playing your own music is cool but its not all that great. Live arcade is fun but they had that on the first xbox it was just all on a dvd you had to buy. and the Gamerscore..... Im actually not liking it at all. They say they are trying to attract casual gamers, but they do everything they can to make EVERYTHING about EVERY game a competition. It takes away a great sense of accomplishment when you get first place in a race on Project Gotham 3 then it tells you you're ranked like 700th out of everyone else that has done it. It's like "Hey good job you got first place and thought you kicked some ass, but you are no where near as good as all these other people". Maybe Im just being too cynical.


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

mmmm toast.

i say HD graphics, faster fps and better physics processing is worth the cost, not to mention a nice media center, and online game play. Oh and my favorite part, the up and coming homebrew stuff.


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

The other real problem with this article and a few replys, is that Microsoft is not the one raising the prices on the games, it's becoming an industry standard. If you pay attention all the games with the MS logo are still $50. The larger third party companies like EA are the ones griping about $50 not being enough per game to cover development costs. Meanwhile smaller companies poke fun at them for mismanagment of funds. All other mediums have gone up in price over the last 20 years, take movie ticket prices the've gone up roughly 100%, with the exception of video games, so I'm not surprised by this at all. I remember paying $70 a pop for a few N64 games, so this is not the first time it has been attempted nor will it be the last.


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

Dont forget the 3DO that retailed for $800 when it first came out. But it failed miserably


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

So let me get this straight, Microsoft is going to fail because it's too expensive for kids?

Isn't the 360 still sold out? I thought demand was so great the damn thing can't stay on store shelves. That doesn't seem like failure to me.

Parents are just pissed they didn't pre-order one for x-mas. Now they piss and moan to thier kids that it's too expensive and they'll wait for it to come down in price, or wait for the ps3.
I bet the smart parents that already have a core system wrapped up in thier closet for thier kids on the holidays didn't think twice about the price.

One more thing, kids and parents aren't interested in buying a 360 due to the price? Well GOOD! That's called quality control. How many times have you picked up a new game and jumped on XBL and had a great few months playing it? Shortly after, the game goes into the bargain bin for $9.99 and every kid in the world gets it, takes it home on thier trial account and ruins the live experience for everyone else.

I just don't see how MS is failing at all.


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   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

That last post is so true. I thought I was imagining that aspect of Live. yes it's great in the beginning and seems to degenerated to childs play over time for each game. Wow, someone else got the same impression.


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

you think $60 is a lot for a 360, wait till ps3 games come out. some games are still $50, software is where everyone makes their money thats why they take losses on the hardware. Cost of developing isnt cheap either especially when having to utilize more powerful systems.


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

What i find lame about the article is that is so narrow minded, of course MS is losing in the hardwae, every company does, or don´t gain anything on it, in the case of nintendo. but they are saying is not gonna be profitable and that is stupid, MS has it very well planned this times just think about these 5 reasons why it is gonna be profitable:

1.-peripherials.

they lose on the console but they will win on every peripherial sold

2.-merchandise.

this time around the xbox360 merchandise is completely centralized by MS, evey single official merchandise will be selled by MS unlike the first time where it where part and part.

3.-Live

live arcade, live marketplace, live downloading of apps.

this is one of the most important point it is said that there will be a 1000 games online in the live arcade within the first 2 years of it.

live marketplace will be huge, it has so much potencial that it can´t be measured yet of succesful it will be,

live downloading will report some serious biz because a lot of people will buy apps for the xbox360.

4.- synergy.

remember this very well 2006 will be another MS year, because of the new I.E, new messenger, new msn.com, new msnTV, new windows,new office, new windows mobile,etc.

and it is already known that the xbox360 not only connects with the xp branch, it will connect with the new mobile and the vista branch.

5.-the most basic one: the games.

this time around according to Ms it will run the 3 markets in a global but very dedicated way, there will be a minimum 100 games for each market by january 2007.


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

We all speak of $60 being overpriced, but do you guys know the average price for games in Japan? Regular PS2 games are, and have been since PS1 (game prior to PS were like $100 for SNES and N64 games), 5,800 yen (approx. $58 when $1=100yen), and hyped-up games like FF and Dragon Quests are like 7,800 yen. Lastly, though this is ridiculous, history simulation games like Romance of three kingdom by Koei are sold for 11,000 yen. But again, who cares what the Japanese pay for their games because everything is expensive there and they'll buy a PS3 at any price anyways. I'm Japanese and buy games in the US, and I think the price is fair for all the awesome games we got in the States. =P


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

you guys who bought a xbox are kidding yourself. not so deep in the back of your minds you know all of the new games drop massive framerate when playing on highdef and high action. it looks choppy , im dissapointed.lets not talk about how it crashes.

in the other hand you cant argue that there is no way you can afford a motherboard that supports 3 dualcore processors :)


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

ya i think this article is pretty retarded. $400 is not that much and the $525 it cost to make is what WE would have to pay to put it together. microsoft probably pays a quarter of that, jus think would any company make a console that they actually lose $125 on each product?! NO.


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

yeah, MS made 10 xbox's, wow and they r all sold out, that system is the best, 10 people wanted it, they r making 10 more, five people r looking forward too buying it,wow, its all sold out,now this is making the xbox the best


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

The question isn't if THEY would pay for it, it's if their parents would......


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

Omg, sorry but I just have to rant for a moment. Xbox 360 is definitely only worth getting one for free, as a novelty. Now, $400 might not reduce the average man to poverty, but I mean you have to admit that for the average man it can be a pretty big chunk out of your wallet for a video game system. Besides this, the Xbox 360 doesn't seem to quite deliver on quality as I've read about and even heard from people themselves of Xbox 360s completely destroying disks after just a few days of use. Now, of course the actual games and gameplay are the true strongpoint of any system. But the 360 even manages to fail in this department. Practically every game thats even worth buying is just a sequel or port, nothing that you can't get on current gen consoles. If you say it would be worth it because of the improved graphics, I still haven't managed to see anything on the 360 that really blows me away. Yeah, so the graphics on games like Perfect Dark Zero and PGR3 are better than anything out right now, but nothing that noticeable. In fact, imo, many of the 360 games have that weird, shiny, plasticy look to them. All of the 360 fans will deny this, but I think deep down inside you know that the 360 is really just an Xbox 1.5........except you can't even play all your old xbox games on it, so it feels more like an update without the original hardware.


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

Microsoft lost 4 billion on the original Xbox after all things considered

so they have yet to see a return in their gaming dept

But don't forget their cash cow will be the microtransactions

Small hidden costs that they will probably end up requiring to get the maximum playability out of a game you already spent 50$ on.


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   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

Microtransactions are the root of all evil, and shall bring upon the apocalypse. 'Tis stated in the holy bible of gaming.


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

the last seven posters are retarded. **** them...
in the ear...
on sunday.


   by (QJ. NET Staff) - 1999-11-30

OMG above poster dewd you're t0tally ryte. Lyke, peoplez that bash Micro$oft is retarted!!! I PLAY PERFECT DARK ZERO EVERY DAY AND IM ALL LIKE WTFPWNAGE. XBOX 360 ROOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLZZZZZZZ!!!!1111!!!111ONE11




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